|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 3:15:38 PM
|
|
|
treeclimber48
Posts: 112
Joined: 8/25/2006
Status: offline
|
I didn't know why I began posting on this thread until a few minutes ago. I am a Lutheran. I was raised in the Nazarene Church. I left it when I married my late husband who was a lutheran. What I never see in Joel Osteen's church, is communion, or people or babies being baptized?
What interests me about Joel Osteen's church is why does he have so many followers, when others have so few? Why are some churches empty, when others are full? Why do people go to church and others do not?
people should be going to church to worship and praise God, to have fellowship with other christans. What is going on in the churches of today? Why are so many flocking to churches that seem to leave out the message of good news. the breaking of bread together. Is this an example of things to come?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 3:22:37 PM
|
|
|
Soxfan
Posts: 1492
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: treeclimber48
I didn't know why I began posting on this thread until a few minutes ago. I am a Lutheran. I was raised in the Nazarene Church. I left it when I married my late husband who was a lutheran. What I never see in Joel Osteen's church, is communion, or people or babies being baptized?
What interests me about Joel Osteen's church is why does he have so many followers, when others have so few? Why are some churches empty, when others are full? Why do people go to church and others do not?
people should be going to church to worship and praise God, to have fellowship with other christans. What is going on in the churches of today? Why are so many flocking to churches that seem to leave out the message of good news. the breaking of bread together. Is this an example of things to come?
Those are excellent questions treeclimber48.
Those churches are full because the false and partial gospel they present is what people want to hear. Most people want to hear a message that promises them health, wealth, material blessings. And all they have to do is claim it and God is obligated to provide.
Joel Osteen and the rest of the WoF cult preach a God that is a supernatural slot machine. Pull the lever and down comes the blessings. No mention that we must deny ourselves, take up our crosses and boldly follow Jesus Christ!
This Scripture is a perfect illustration of the state of the church today:
2Timothy 4:3 - "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear"
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 4:39:31 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3600
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
quote:
Why are so many flocking to churches that seem to leave out the message of good news. the breaking of bread together. Is this an example of things to come?
The same reason that so many flock to the Casinos.
Christians included.
quote:
Joel Osteen and the rest of the WoF cult preach a God that is a supernatural slot machine. Pull the lever and down comes the blessings.
Before God gave the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai, the children of Israel had to
agree to "obey" whatever God said before they heard any of the details.
There was no pie in the sky revelation and then the asking if you want to get in on the "deal."
Romans 10 is quite complicit. Confess with your mouth that Jesus is "LORD"
and believe that God raised Him from the dead.
Confession of His lordship is NOT just words. It's followed by actions that meet those words.
Millions of "converts" , but few "disciples."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 4:46:09 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: carlkeigley
Millions of "converts" , but few "disciples."
Or:
A lake that's ten miles wide but only an inch deep.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 5:40:34 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6203
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: treeclimber48
I didn't know why I began posting on this thread until a few minutes ago. I am a Lutheran. I was raised in the Nazarene Church. I left it when I married my late husband who was a lutheran. What I never see in Joel Osteen's church, is communion, or people or babies being baptized?
What interests me about Joel Osteen's church is why does he have so many followers, when others have so few? Why are some churches empty, when others are full?
May I remind you of the passages in Scripture about people's itching ears and gathering around those that serve their self-interests. Joel preaches a 'ME Gospel'.
quote:
ORIGINAL: treeclimber48
people should be going to church to worship and praise God, to have fellowship with other christans. What is going on in the churches of today? Why are so many flocking to churches that seem to leave out the message of good news. the breaking of bread together. Is this an example of things to come?
Joel Osteen and his false teachings and heretical teachings about Jesus Christ is a sign of the things to come. All because Christians disobey God's mandate to be like the Bereans.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 5:57:01 PM
|
|
|
krazyxsinner
Posts: 1132
Joined: 1/13/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
The same reason that so many flock to the Casinos
No casinos?!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 5:58:31 PM
|
|
|
krazyxsinner
Posts: 1132
Joined: 1/13/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
What I never see in Joel Osteen's church, is communion, or people or babies being baptized?
This doesn't bother me. Some tv ministries don't show these because of time constraints.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 8:00:07 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3600
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: krazyxsinner
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: krazyxsinner
quote:
The same reason that so many flock to the Casinos
No casinos?!
I'll meet you at table #4.... as soon as I finish up my third buffet plate. 
I only like blackjack and that is at table 11 no maybe 7.
I wouldn't know.
We've had one here for many, many years.
I have yet to even drive on the parking lot.
I've been tempted to see how many "professing" christians
that would be evident by the "fishies" on their cars. lol.
But, I don't have that sin in my reportoire.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 8:30:41 PM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 2401
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
The way I drive...I prefer not to have a fish on the back of my car.
But I digress....
_____________________________
love.ben
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/28/2008 9:56:24 PM
|
|
|
krazyxsinner
Posts: 1132
Joined: 1/13/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Kentucky Fried Chicken bucket
I like KFC. Extra crunchy please.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 1:00:14 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3600
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: krazyxsinner
quote:
Kentucky Fried Chicken bucket
I like KFC. Extra crunchy please.
LOL.
I agree it would be more worth while if JO passed a
bucket full of chicken to feed the masses instead of
empty words. But the empty words bring in the fame
and money, feeding them would take money out of
the budget with indigestion as a return. lol.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 1:02:03 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3600
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
The way I drive...I prefer not to have a fish on the back of my car.
But I digress....
LOL, that's make two of us, bro!!!
LOL.
That's one reason I have an unusual fishie on my trunk
You'd have to know what it is to recognize it.
And, if we act like the world, it's better not to have any
"emblems" of God on our vehicles. LOL.
People know they can't hear a word we say for the ways we act.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 2:51:41 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6203
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
Interesting little tidbit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHglKISyaKs
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 4:39:38 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3600
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
What more needs to be said?
It had me going because I would not be surprised if there
was an updated version of his 13 million dollar advance book
"Become a Better YOU." The mock poster, Become a Better Jesus
had me going. lol.
JO from his own mouth reveals he has no shame about NOT delivering the gospel
of Jesus Christ. May God help him come to his senses.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 5:39:23 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6203
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
Evidently a lot more needs to be said because we have many that have come in here and said Joel is preaching sound doctrine.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 8:44:42 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
Evidently a lot more needs to be said because we have many that have come in here and said Joel is preaching sound doctrine. No, some of us just aren't as techy about our "doctrine" as some others. Doctrine (dogma) is a whole lot less important to me than practical application of the gospel to my life here and now. For people who are just rigid about their doctrine being absolutely pure, he's poison I'm sure.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 8:56:44 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6203
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
Evidently a lot more needs to be said because we have many that have come in here and said Joel is preaching sound doctrine. No, some of us just aren't as techy about our "doctrine" as some others. Doctrine (dogma) is a whole lot less important to me than practical application of the gospel to my life here and now. For people who are just rigid about their doctrine being absolutely pure, he's poison I'm sure.
Are you ever going to answer our questions to you about how the Jesus Joel preaches is not the Jesus of Scripture? I am sincerely asking because you come into this thread post something, we ask you questions, and you disappear from the thread for a while and then come back (ignoring all the questions we asked you) and post something else defending Joel.
Doctrine was super important to Jesus, the Apostle Paul, and the disciples. The Greek term didache means instruction or teaching, such as in John 7:16: "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me," and he goes on to say in verse 17: "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."
Acts 2:42 shows that the newly baptized on Pentecost "continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine." These verses alone would place such significance on doctrine that it would take a careless Christian to say that didache in unimportant in any respect.
Then there are those instructions of Paul to Timothy: "By laying these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Jesus Christ, being fed with the words of the faith and of the good teaching which you have followed (1 Tim. 4:6), and in verse 13 he tells him: "Until I come, pay attention to reading, to comforting and to teaching (doctrine)."
This would not only make doctrine important but vitally important.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 8:59:38 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
Doctrine (dogma) is a whole lot less important to me than practical application of the gospel to my life here and now.
But how can he teach you to apply the gospel W/O quoting it? Doctrine IS vital and is how one can even begin to teach the gospel.
How do we know what is true w/o proper doctrine? How do we know if the application is true w/o doctrine?
So, guess you believe the Book of Mormon is as equaly valid as the Bible? Whatever answer you give has to be based on doctrine!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 9:00:24 PM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 2401
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
You can't have orthopraxy without orthodoxy.
_____________________________
love.ben
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Joel Osteen? - 1/29/2008 11:43:10 PM
|
|
|
figmentPez
Posts: 2061
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
No, some of us just aren't as techy about our "doctrine" as some others. Doctrine (dogma) is a whole lot less important to me than practical application of the gospel to my life here and now. For people who are just rigid about their doctrine being absolutely pure, he's poison I'm sure.
Doctrine (from dictionary.com):
something that is taught; teachings collectively
That's it. Doctrine is teaching. Here is what scripture has to say on doctrine:
Matthew 15:9
"'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"
Notice, this isn't saying that doctrine is from men, but decrying when the rules of men is taught as doctrine! God's teachings are doctrine. One cannot call all doctrine bad.
1 Timothy 4:6
In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
What are these things that Paul is telling Timothy to point out, to be nourished by sound doctrine? Among other things, this statement:
1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
We must counter false teaching with true teaching. The doctrine that Joel Osteen preaches from his pulpit is seriously flawed, and must be countered with accurate Biblical doctrine.
Titus 2:1, 6-10
1But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.
...
6Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; 7in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, 8sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.
9Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, 10not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.
Sound doctrine is a part of practical application of the gospel, here and now. Sound doctrine has always been a part of actually applying scripture because, first and foremost, to properly apply scripture, we must know the One who gave us scripture. If we don't hold to accurate teaching of who God is, then we can't accurately know what He would have us do. The greatest commandment is to love God, how are we to love someone if we do not know them? The second commandment is to love others, but how can we love others without first loving God? The entirety of God's commandments to us are summed up in those commandments, and those commandments insist upon proper doctrine to be properly applied to the here and now.
One last one:
Titus 1:7, 9
7For the overseer must be...
9holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
This is one of the requirements to be a leader of the Church. Those in leadership MUST be faithful to scripture, able to exhort in sound doctrine "and to refute those who contradict." Joel Osteen is unable to refute Mormons, who contradict sound doctrine in the extreme. Joel Osteen doesn't meet the Biblical requirements for someone in leadership. Nor does anyone who cannot stand for sound doctrine.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
