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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/1/2008 11:42:56 PM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1100
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
Though you reject me now, you will one day realize that it was your eternal souls that I was concerned about.
Bless you for your charity.
It's not tongues that is dividing the church. It's people who refuse to accept those who have different viewpoints as brothers and sisters in Christ.
Which includes people telling ME, me personally, that I must not either A) have strong enough faith to receive the gifts of the Spirit; B) I may be a believer but have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet; or C) I am not a believer; all because I do not speak in tongues.
I was completely ostracized from a previous church because I began to question the way people were using the gift of tongues.
So please, dont start thinking that cessationists have a monopoly on looking down on the other group. Because even though I am NOT a cessationist, i am labled as one because I do not agree with the mainline use of tongues today. While those who attack those who use tongues are wrong, those who counter attack claiming that those who do not speak in tongues are flawed somehow, are just as equally wrong.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/1/2008 11:52:39 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1966
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Amen Stephanos,
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2008 12:17:02 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2401
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
Though you reject me now, you will one day realize that it was your eternal souls that I was concerned about.
Bless you for your charity.
It's not tongues that is dividing the church. It's people who refuse to accept those who have different viewpoints as brothers and sisters in Christ.
Which includes people telling ME, me personally, that I must not either A) have strong enough faith to receive the gifts of the Spirit; B) I may be a believer but have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet; or C) I am not a believer; all because I do not speak in tongues.
I was completely ostracized from a previous church because I began to question the way people were using the gift of tongues.
So please, dont start thinking that cessationists have a monopoly on looking down on the other group. Because even though I am NOT a cessationist, i am labled as one because I do not agree with the mainline use of tongues today. While those who attack those who use tongues are wrong, those who counter attack claiming that those who do not speak in tongues are flawed somehow, are just as equally wrong.
Absolutely. I worded my statement very carefully so that it did not leave any of us excluded.
And I am sorry for your experience. Seriously. That sucks.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2008 12:20:46 AM
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designed
Posts: 228
Joined: 12/21/2007
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quote:
Stephanos-
While those who attack those who use tongues are wrong, those who counter attack claiming that those who do not speak in tongues are flawed somehow, are just as equally wrong.
I find the 'attacks' and discord created concerning this topic saddening and most commonly related to the verses about what love is not, that is in accordance and primary to Paul's teachings on the spiritual gifts. It seems as though the dissention and confusion has continued from the time Paul addressed these specific matters in 1 Corinthians.
Unfortunetly now there are movements and denominations who are focused more on the gifts themselves, prideful boasting and condeming others instead of growing and edifying eachother in the grace and knowledge of Christ. The Spirit has given me witness to the truth about the gift of tongues and I thank God for all the gifts within the gift(as I like to call them  ).
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:35
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/2/2008 5:02:03 PM
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Godhead
Posts: 326
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Here is a verse that brings me great comfort...
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, (Christians) and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Rev 3:9-10)
You people are being deceived, do you know that not only are people social creatures but so are wolves. Not only do you not have the gifts of the Holy Spirit though you all boast in them, what you do have is the supernatural, which you take in compensation for not having the gifts. One of the points in this thread is to see whether tongues are from God. How I have tried to warn you all. Satan masquerades as an angel of light and so do his ministers. This morning I was watching the hillsongs Australia, a charismatic church program. First the paster was talking about how the truth will set you free, that is true but then he said, free from poverty and sickness. This is not the Gospel I have learned in fact Paul said to keep away from those who say that godliness is a means to receive gain. They talk in tongues, and how god communicates in the spirit yet they preach a different gospel. The spirit that you have and worship is not from God but is another spirit, another Jesus and another gospel. You people do not want to believe the truth. If the truth will set you free as this paster has rightfully said, then why do they follow and serve lies with such enthusiasm. Lies mixed with the truth, that is how Satan deceived Eve and that is how he is deceiving you all. They who hate the truth will be given over to a strong delusion. God help you all to see and may he soon return to put an end to your madness.
_____________________________
But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. (Psalm 49:15)
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/7/2008 5:52:01 AM
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Marksman
Posts: 271
Joined: 6/7/2007
From: Drouin, Victoria, Australia
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quote:
While those who attack those who use tongues are wrong, those who counter attack claiming that those who do not speak in tongues are flawed somehow, are just as equally wrong.
I am very happy to say that when the charismatic move broke out among the historical churches in the UK in the late 50s and early 60s and which I was very involved in, an obvious result was that people gained a new found excitement for their faith, which included speaking in tongues.
This excitement obviously boiled over and when they conversed with others who had not recieved the baptism in the spirit, mainly due to the fact that they were opposed to it, the listener more often than not said "and I suppose you think your a better christian than us."
The truth was that no one I knew gave that impression, it was a perception that the listener had formed for themselves. My experience was that those who were baptised in the spirit and spoke in tongues exercised more humility than less.
_____________________________
God Bless America
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/7/2008 10:57:50 AM
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Him4all
Posts: 478
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
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Marksman,
In looking back to the 70's and my experience in America, the newby charismatics may not have been very humble...as you describe. I'd say we were more caught up in a newfound zeal for God, along with an innocent desire that anyone else who hadn't had that same experience would feel like we did, when they were told about it. Unfortunately, such was not the case and battle lines started forming between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. The Charismatic move obviously made many mistakes in the outpouring since 1904. The immaturity of both groups was probably not unlike what Paul had to address with the Corinthian church and his dealings with the 'spiritual' and the 'unlearned' IMO.
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/8/2008 3:33:59 PM
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LBolt
Posts: 957
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How about we all just love each other, stop judging and hating and just agree to disagree? Me personally, I speak in tongues, I know it's for today and nobody can change me on that. I see in the OT (Isa. 28) and I see in the New testament. If someone chooses not to believe it, your unbelief does not negate Bible. But for the ones who don't believe, hey, you are just as saved as I am or anybody else for that matter. When I read some of these post and even a response to my personal testimony from a particular blogger, I can tell there are some deep seated resentment. If you believe or not believe it, let's not barage your brothers and or Sister in Christ.
This allows satan to get the glory and not YHWH. It's alright to discuss scripture and disagree but lets love each other when it's all said and done. If you don't like or disagree with someone pray for them and for yourself and ask the Lord to shine His light on the individual. Ask Him to purify your own heart. You'll see that He loves both of us the same and if His Ruach is in us we can do the same.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/10/2008 1:00:16 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2401
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
You people are being deceived, do you know that not only are people social creatures but so are wolves.
Satan masquerades as an angel of light and so do his ministers.
You people do not want to believe the truth. If the truth will set you free as this paster has rightfully said, then why do they follow and serve lies with such enthusiasm. Lies mixed with the truth, that is how Satan deceived Eve and that is how he is deceiving you all. They who hate the truth will be given over to a strong delusion.
God help you all to see and may he soon return to put an end to your madness.
How kind. I'm convinced. Allow me to recant my ways.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/13/2008 5:36:47 PM
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Dred
Posts: 220
Joined: 10/11/2007
From: Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
Here is a verse that brings me great comfort...
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, (Christians) and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Rev 3:9-10)
You people are being deceived, do you know that not only are people social creatures but so are wolves. Not only do you not have the gifts of the Holy Spirit though you all boast in them, what you do have is the supernatural, which you take in compensation for not having the gifts. One of the points in this thread is to see whether tongues are from God. How I have tried to warn you all. Satan masquerades as an angel of light and so do his ministers. This morning I was watching the hillsongs Australia, a charismatic church program. First the paster was talking about how the truth will set you free, that is true but then he said, free from poverty and sickness. This is not the Gospel I have learned in fact Paul said to keep away from those who say that godliness is a means to receive gain. They talk in tongues, and how god communicates in the spirit yet they preach a different gospel. The spirit that you have and worship is not from God but is another spirit, another Jesus and another gospel. You people do not want to believe the truth. If the truth will set you free as this paster has rightfully said, then why do they follow and serve lies with such enthusiasm. Lies mixed with the truth, that is how Satan deceived Eve and that is how he is deceiving you all. They who hate the truth will be given over to a strong delusion. God help you all to see and may he soon return to put an end to your madness.
Was that some kind of satire intended to make fun of charisphobics? If not, maybe you should get to know some charismatics (I am not one of them). Most of the ones I've known run around saying "Jesus is Lord" and trying to lead people to faith in Christ. That behavior just doesn't seem consistent with demonic domination. In fact, in 1 Cor. 12:3, Paul seems to fully preclude such a possibility at the beginning of his discourse on tongues, spiritual gifts, and loving each other.
I suspect that any Christian group of significant size and detailed doctrinal positions is way off on some things. Some of those errors may even cause harm, but such errors are certainly not sufficient to imply a hatred of the truth or any close association with demons.
_____________________________
"We count any belief in Him, even the smallest belief, better than any belief about Him." --from Robert Falconer, by George MacDonald
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/21/2008 6:31:53 PM
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Godhead
Posts: 326
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I have plenty of experience with the Pentecostal and charismatic church, both at their meeting and at home.
I am utterly convinced that tongues, and all the other supernatural phenomena is not from God.
Lets settle it then... (throws down the gauntlet.)
The tongues challenge.
Why don't you make a translation of the Bible in this tongues language, so that I can go around with it to anyone who interprets and ask them to translate whatever verse that I point to randomly.
This cannot happen though since tongues is not even a language but just a few meaningless sounds group together. If not, take up my challenge.
I am most certainly charasphobic, and proud to not be numbered with them.
Here I stand!
_____________________________
But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. (Psalm 49:15)
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/21/2008 6:50:14 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2401
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It cannot happen because you still lack the Pentecostal understanding of tongues. You continue to make a strawman just so you can call us heretics and deceived by the devil.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/22/2008 10:56:30 AM
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mcleod
Posts: 1076
Joined: 4/4/2006
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quote:
Which includes people telling ME, me personally, that I must not either A) have strong enough faith to receive the gifts of the Spirit; B) I may be a believer but have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet; or C) I am not a believer; all because I do not speak in tongues.
I was completely ostracized from a previous church because I began to question the way people were using the gift of tongues.
So please, dont start thinking that cessationists have a monopoly on looking down on the other group. Because even though I am NOT a cessationist, i am labled as one because I do not agree with the mainline use of tongues today. While those who attack those who use tongues are wrong, those who counter attack claiming that those who do not speak in tongues are flawed somehow, are just as equally wrong.
Yes this can and does happen in those circles. One of the head, lest in his eyes. Hagan JR. said a few days ago on Daystar channel that. A sign for someone to be saved, is that they speak in tongues. What big mistake he just stated when he said that.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/22/2008 6:28:32 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 478
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: online
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mcleod,
If he said 'a sign' like you just quoted then he's right. If he said 'the sign' then I too would disagree.
quote:
A) have strong enough faith to receive the gifts of the Spirit; B) I may be a believer but have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet; or C) I am not a believer; all because I do not speak in tongues.
As far as the above quote is concerned...what's wrong with A) or B) being true? Is there possibly a pride issue here on top of a faith problem?
As far as C) I've already stated my personal opinion. As far as being ostracized I would have to know more of the facts concerning their perception. Generally speaking I'd say I don't agree with ostracizing since our church is probably 1/3 prayer tongue speaking.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/22/2008 6:41:30 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5661
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
The tongues challenge.
Why don't you make a translation of the Bible in this tongues language, so that I can go around with it to anyone who interprets and ask them to translate whatever verse that I point to randomly.
This cannot happen though since tongues is not even a language but just a few meaningless sounds group together. If not, take up my challenge.
I am most certainly charasphobic, and proud to not be numbered with them.
Here I stand!
Well I will see your gauntlet and raise you two (verses that is)
It would be impossible to do as you wish based on the following;
(1Co 14:1) Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
(1Co 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
Please not that "No man understndeth him", if it is a prophecy then the gift of interpretation sometimes comes into play. But even that is something than man cannot cipher, bucause intrepretation is a gift of God given to whoever the Spirit wills.
So fold your strawman hand and try again.
In actuality you are not standing, buy flat on your face on this one.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/23/2008 9:21:11 PM
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Godhead
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What Paul was talking about has nothing to do with what they are doing in the church today. Getting a crystal ball and putting a Jesus sticker on it doesn't make it right. And labeling fortune telling as prophesying does not change what it is. A rose by any other name is still a rose.
_____________________________
But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. (Psalm 49:15)
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/24/2008 9:39:25 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5661
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
What Paul was talking about has nothing to do with what they are doing in the church today. Getting a crystal ball and putting a Jesus sticker on it doesn't make it right. And labeling fortune telling as prophesying does not change what it is. A rose by any other name is still a rose.
I do believe that you are the only one calling prophesying "Frotune Telling", so you must be arguing with yourself.
I have been a Pastor in a Full Gospel for 45 years and have yet to see a crystal ball in or out of a service.
And just how did you become such an expert on "What they doing in the Church today".
Thsnks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 2/24/2008 9:47:05 AM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/26/2008 1:29:04 AM
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Godhead
Posts: 326
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I have been to meetings and seen it all and witnessed many false predictions. One guy, a then close friend of mine was told that He was going to become a fortress where many will come to for refuge. Sadly quite the opposite happened, he got a prostitute pregnant and his wife left and took the kids with her. Many other things like that have I seen. One church said that the Holy Spirit was going to evangelize the town and many people were going to flock to the church. Sadly, the church became unglued and disbanded before the holy Spirit could do that. Another church who gave me a message from the Lord, I never went back of course. Well that church burnt down, and here's the thing, it was right next to a fire station. I guess God sent the fire all right and after it was gone so was the church, only ashes were left. All three churches spoke in tongues and all that. God does not speak that way anymore, only through the truths of the Gospel, which can save men's souls from hell. This is the greater thing Christ was talking about in 14:12 Thats what it is all about, saving men's lost souls, through preaching the Gospel. We have all we need in the Bible today to do that.
_____________________________
But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. (Psalm 49:15)
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/26/2008 8:22:51 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5661
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
I have been to meetings and seen it all and witnessed many false predictions. One guy, a then close friend of mine was told that He was going to become a fortress where many will come to for refuge. Sadly quite the opposite happened, he got a prostitute pregnant and his wife left and took the kids with her. Many other things like that have I seen. One church said that the Holy Spirit was going to evangelize the town and many people were going to flock to the church. Sadly, the church became unglued and disbanded before the holy Spirit could do that. Another church who gave me a message from the Lord, I never went back of course. Well that church burnt down, and here's the thing, it was right next to a fire station. I guess God sent the fire all right and after it was gone so was the church, only ashes were left. All three churches spoke in tongues and all that. God does not speak that way anymore, only through the truths of the Gospel, which can save men's souls from hell. This is the greater thing Christ was talking about in 14:12 Thats what it is all about, saving men's lost souls, through preaching the Gospel. We have all we need in the Bible today to do that.
Yes, the Gospel is sufficient, and the New Testament is the Gospel with its instructions concerning the Gifts of the Holy Spirit along with all the other "Good news".
You are still confusing "Fortune telling" with prophecy spoken of in the New Testament.
I am glad to see that you have backed of of calling tongues, and the other gifts works of the devil, etc.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/26/2008 8:50:05 PM
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sudzer
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Joined: 2/13/2008
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Amen Country Preacher: Though I have not posted in on this topic before, may I join in by saying that I have the gift of tongues. When I confessed this in a Baptist Church they said the same thing that it was from the devil. Jesus was accused of being of the devil for healing the sick and casting out demons. But He also said that this greives the Holy Spirt. The gift of tongues is not gibber it acually different languages, mine is Hebrew which I did not know until I started taking Hebrew. I have asked for the gift of interpitation and can at times interpet. I pray in tongues as I stand in the gap in intersessory prayer.
When praying for healing the Spirit is very strong in breaking that sickness, (the only way I can explain). It is a gift given to me for Hashem and to be used as He directs me, not as I see fit to use this wonderful blessing but as He directs. May we all have eyes that see and ears that ear, and listen to what the Sprit says to the churches. Blessings Sudzer
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/27/2008 11:55:30 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 957
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Amen! Sudzer, While you are praying remember me. 
I actually heard a gentle how did not speak Spanish pray in Spanish during our personal prayer time. It was amazing!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 2/27/2008 5:23:13 PM
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awaken
Posts: 95
Joined: 1/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sudzer
Amen Country Preacher: Though I have not posted in on this topic before, may I join in by saying that I have the gift of tongues. When I confessed this in a Baptist Church they said the same thing that it was from the devil. Jesus was accused of being of the devil for healing the sick and casting out demons. But He also said that this greives the Holy Spirt. The gift of tongues is not gibber it acually different languages, mine is Hebrew which I did not know until I started taking Hebrew. I have asked for the gift of interpitation and can at times interpet. I pray in tongues as I stand in the gap in intersessory prayer.
When praying for healing the Spirit is very strong in breaking that sickness, (the only way I can explain). It is a gift given to me for Hashem and to be used as He directs me, not as I see fit to use this wonderful blessing but as He directs. May we all have eyes that see and ears that ear, and listen to what the Sprit says to the churches. Blessings Sudzer
Just curious, After you mentioned you spoke in tongues in the Baptist church, are you still there?
The reason I ask is because I am in a Baptist Church, I also speak in tongues.
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