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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/16/2008 1:54:53 AM
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dsantorejr
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Can't even say we came up with it, the fit time I heard it was by Podcast by a church in seattle (Mars Hill-Pastor Mark Driscoll)
it is cool though, isn't it
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/16/2008 10:14:44 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dsantorejr
I am brand spanking new here. I have a specific request, but feel I need to post my say-so. I am a Christian, Born Again, filled with the Holy Spirit and .........I don't speak in tongues....
Yes, and I know many folks who I believe with all my heart have been Baptized with the Holy Spirit and operate in Holiness and Power; but do not speak in tongues.
That is not a new thingy; Paul spoke to this in;
(1Co 14:5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Paul states that he wished everyone spoke in tongues, but evidently they did not then and did not now. Neither do all prophesy (Speak the Oracles of God, teach or preach). Some do and some don't, that is just the way it is.
quote:
My first church was Pentacostal which people emphasized it very much there. I begged and pleaded with God for that "touch of the Holy Spirit" then I got mad and yelled and cursed him and didn't return for a month.
I can't find any Scripture for pleading and begging for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Therre is one passage that speaks to prayer and waiting (prayer and waiting not gripping, cursing, and getting mad).;
(Act 1:4) And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
(Act 1:5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
(Act 1:6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
(Act 1:7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
(Act 1:8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
In the Book of Acts some spoke in tongues when they were saved, some later when hands were laid on them, and some evidently (according to Paul) did not speak in tongues at all.
Scripture does not mention Paul speaking in tonges at his conversion or when he was filled with the Holy Ghost, but later he says he spoke in tongues more than anyone else.
Go figure.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/16/2008 11:25:41 AM
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krazyxsinner
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Thanks RC for making this clear. So may Christians are placed in undue bondage by people with the false teaching that everyone must speak in tongues. the worse teaching is the erroneous one that if you do not speak in tongues you are not born again. I do my husband does not. We are both saved.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/16/2008 4:06:38 PM
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dsantorejr
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while i really do appreciate the welcome and the responses, I am still desperately trying to compile a list of names of non-tongue chirstians (ex: billy graham) all help is appreciated
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Klingon to the Way, the Truth and the Life, for He is the Gateway to Forever and will help you through all your "tribbles"
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/16/2008 4:12:05 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dsantorejr
while i really do appreciate the welcome and the responses, I am still desperately trying to compile a list of names of non-tongue chirstians (ex: billy graham) all help is appreciated
You might want to include a list of ministers of non-tongue organizations that did/do speak in tongues; such as Dwight Moody and a few hundred more. They do not talk much about it because of the threats of their organizations; but thier biographers reference it quite often.
But of Course that might mess up your agenda.
Thanka
RC
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/16/2008 4:30:27 PM
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dsantorejr
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My agenda is not to disprove tongues. I have a friend that says you can't have a close intimate relationship with God without tongues and There seems to be an idea that without tongues, you may not have "power" as well. I don't discount the gifts of the Holy Spirit at all. I just wanted to provide him a list of names to show him the power is not in speaking in tounges but in the HOly Spirit in which we get on day one. he is kinda forcing down my throat and a couple of others at church and I just remmber how I felt. I am trying to do this in Love.
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USS Jesus Christ - Boldly going to spread the Gospel throughout the universe.
Klingon to the Way, the Truth and the Life, for He is the Gateway to Forever and will help you through all your "tribbles"
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/16/2008 4:49:18 PM
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dsantorejr
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Hey Krazysinner,
I was checking out some of your links and they were really interesting. iwanted to e-mail some one at the Goth site, but i couln'd find the link for that maybe you can pass this along:
I won't try to say I understand "christian goth", but from just skimming accross site you seem spot on about Chirst message, you don't mix it with anything else. I know God uses any and all willing to be used to further His kingdom. I am encouraged that God has raised up a generation (or culture) sucj as yours to reach those that may be misunderstood by "the masses" and pray God continues to use you and others like you.
Sometimes God puts people in our lives to show us the problems we ourselves had. We were blessed to have man come to our church for about 2-3 years and during that time, his knowledge of the bible and just overall friendliness and compassion for oher christians and Joy he brought to children taught me(and hopefully others) the value of all people God has called unto Him.
Here is the catch, he was homeless and living in the woods, year round. he was dingy and sometimes smelly and he went to be with the Lord late last year after a battle with cancer, but God clearly put him in our lives for a season and taught us(or at least me) a very valuable lesson about being different and I had the fortunate opportunity to tell him that before he passed. he also blessed us by saying that we had been the only church as he travelled accross the country that made him feel welcome.
I hope this is an encouragement to you and others like you and pray for God's church so our eyes and understanding would be open and excepting to all who truly believe in Christ.
Blessing to you
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USS Jesus Christ - Boldly going to spread the Gospel throughout the universe.
Klingon to the Way, the Truth and the Life, for He is the Gateway to Forever and will help you through all your "tribbles"
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/16/2008 5:00:35 PM
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MichiganCatholic
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I don't believe one must pray in tongues to be considered a legitimate Christian, but I do pray in tongues. This is not common in my church, but there is a sizable Charismatic Catholic community that started about thirty-five to forty years ago.
< Message edited by MichiganCatholic -- 3/16/2008 5:07:02 PM >
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/19/2008 6:02:14 PM
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bassmandrex
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Why wouldn't someone want to receive the Holy Ghost?
if you haven't, you are powerless Act 1:8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you..."
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Luk 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
If you have been filled with the Holy Ghost you must have spoken in togues because thats what it describes in the Bible! Its the eveidence that you have it!
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/19/2008 7:24:05 PM
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Godhead
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bassmandrex
If you have been filled with the Holy Ghost you must have spoken in togues because thats what it describes in the Bible! Its the eveidence that you have it!
Considering the fact that you are talking about the supernatural and not the Holy Spriit, when referring to those verses, as well as experiencing supernatural phenomena and not power to be a new creatures in Christ, and witnesses to the truth. For example, Paul said, “Do all speak in tongues?” Which clearly shows that you are wrong about everyone having that as a sighn that you have been baptised in the Holy Spirit. Since you are wrong in that, could it not be possible that you are wrong concerning a great many thing pertaining to the Holy Spirit.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/19/2008 10:32:06 PM
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bassmandrex
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quote:
But that blanket statement cannot be u niversally true or Paul would not have said not everyone will speak in tongues. If a person has no "power" then there is no use in ever praying.
It depends what you are praying! "Power" is authority over something so the gift of the Holy Ghost gives us power over carnal things, but doesn't mean we will be tempted because we do live in this world. If you have the Holy Ghost you would be able to understand, and when you do have it you must know how to take advantage of it and use it. otherwise you just deny it and think its only for certain people well thats not what Peter said in Acts
Acts 2:37-39 "Now when they heard this, they were ****ed in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call." (KJV)
He is speaking to the Gentiles here and if i am not mistaken we are Gentiles too! He goes on say that this if to all those afar off see that it starts with those there and than teach your children to do so and it just continues down the line and somewhere along that line thats where i stand along with everyone else. Otherwise why would this be put in the Bible if we weren't supposed to obey this! You can either believe this or not, if you dont then you deny God's word and deny him! "its black and white"
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/20/2008 1:56:36 PM
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sudzer
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I have posted on this tread sometime ago, saying I pray in tongues. The gift is just that a gift from God, to be used as He see fit. I have not prayed in my Baptist Church out loud in tongues but have prayed. You have to believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit to really understand them. There are many and we are not all given the same gift, we are given the gifts as the Holy Spirit see fit, for what ever work the Lord will have us do. Mine is prayer, to pray for other people as well as my family. If someone does not have the gift of tongues it does not mean that they are not saved, be must be baptiszied in the name of Jesus Christ and believe in His testimony. When King Jesus comes again let Him finds us with faith like the mustard seed, pure faith. Blessings Sudzer
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/20/2008 6:16:50 PM
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bassmandrex
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you are right there is no second salvation.
Peter said it is for all so if you think its only for certain people i disagree because i know millions that have it and those that dont have it make up some excuse why not too. i would ask have you ever tried and if you have and didn't receive it what were you thinking so much about because it is so easy to get. Repent and praise God is the easiest way to put it and if you don't get than well then you are still allowing something to enter in you mentally or spiritually or your just not ready for the change God has for your life! It has to be your total undivided attention to God not caring what others might think! i will tell you what it is the biggest step that you would/will take with God!
you can go ahead and keep hitting me with why you shouldn't, but it doesn't phase me because i know what i have and no one can tell me different!
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/20/2008 6:23:20 PM
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earthless
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Have we covered that the tongues seen on the day of Pentecost were known human languages? A lot of people like to read those passages to a certain point and not the rest of the context/passage.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/20/2008 9:38:59 PM
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bassmandrex
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since i speak english, for me to start speaking german means that i am filled with the Holy Ghost as the Spirit gives me utterance?????
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/21/2008 11:15:30 AM
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Him4all
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bassmandrex,
quote:
It depends what you are praying! "Power" is authority over something so the gift of the Holy Ghost gives us power over carnal things,
Actually you're not quite right. Power isn't over authority, authority is over power.
LUK 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall hurt you.
And serpents and scorpions don't represent things carnal...they represent things spiritual. Scorpions symbolize demonic authority to torture and serpents symbolize the authority of death. Satan comes to rob, kill, and destroy.
Your own born again spirit has the power to overcome anything carnal in your life. Jesus overcame sin totally without The Holy Spirit. He did it with the power of His own perfect human spirit which he was born with. He never did any miracles until after He received The Holy Spirit when He was baptized. Believers today don't need the power of the baptism of the HS to overcome sin and carnality. They only need the power of their own born again holy spirit which is the same as the spirit Jesus was born with.
DR
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/21/2008 11:21:43 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bassmandrex
since i speak english, for me to start speaking german means that i am filled with the Holy Ghost as the Spirit gives me utterance?????
Let's see what Scripture says about just what exactly happened that day..
Acts 2:3-
"3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in OTHER tongues as the Spirit enabled them."
** NOW let's read the rest of the passage for context **
'7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"'
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/21/2008 1:38:31 PM
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bassmandrex
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quote:
Him4all
i dont thing you understand what i said there otherwise you wouldn't have said that! i didn't say power was over authority, reread what i said there!
Authority
AUTHOR'ITY, n. [L. auctoritas.]
1. Legal power, or a right to command or to act; as the authority of a prince over subjects, and of parents over children. Power; rule; sway.
POW'ER, n. [The Latin has posse, possum, potes, potentia. The primary sense of the verb is to strain, to exert force.]
13. One invested with authority; a ruler; a civil magistrate. Rom 13.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/21/2008 1:41:06 PM
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bassmandrex
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quote:
Let's see what Scripture says about just what exactly happened that day..
Acts 2:3-
"3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in OTHER tongues as the Spirit enabled them."
** NOW let's read the rest of the passage for context **
'7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"'
Would you be comfortable meaning agree with, if i said that when i speak, in English, i have received the Holy Ghost? If no, i would honestly like to hear your view on what it is actually saying!
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/21/2008 1:44:43 PM
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earthless
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bass,
Scripture records that when they started to speak in tongues - they started to speak actual/known human languages. It's as if today you were to all of a sudden start preaching the Gospel in Spanish or German, etc.. when you do not know the language but the people you are ministering to do.
That is what Scripture (in Acts) records.. not the angelic thing that people try to push today as the one and only thing.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/21/2008 2:54:07 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
bass,
Scripture records that when they started to speak in tongues - they started to speak actual/known human languages. It's as if today you were to all of a sudden start preaching the Gospel in Spanish or German, etc.. when you do not know the language but the people you are ministering to do.
That is what Scripture (in Acts) records.. not the angelic thing that people try to push today as the one and only thing.
Earthless, does Scripture say they spoke in the known tongues of those who heard, or does It say they each heard in their own language.
Maybe it was the miracle of hearing and not speaking?????
Just a thought.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my new book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com/
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 3/21/2008 2:56:01 PM
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earthless
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RC,
I think it just simply means what it does.. that the languages being spoken were known human ones that the listeners knew as their own native tongue.
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