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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2008 4:07:13 PM
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JesKlu
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Hello!
But how are you able to tell the real from the fake. So many people are taught (coached) how to seak in tongues and that is quite frustrating. And I don't want to repeat the Jewel/pamphlet story.
Like I said before, you either have the gift of tongues or you don't.
Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica
_____________________________
And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2008 5:01:40 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
Joined: 5/30/2008
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Hey there
My question is.......what do you do if you are speaking in tongues and you decide - after reading all these posts....that you need to stop?
Seriously, I would think you have a problem if you are 'speaking in tongues' and then you decide it is not of God?!?
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2008 5:08:04 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5679
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Hey there
My question is.......what do you do if you are speaking in tongues and you decide - after reading all these posts....that you need to stop?
Seriously, I would think you have a problem if you are 'speaking in tongues' and then you decide it is not of God?!?
Why would someone who is led by the Holy Spirit stop being led by the Holy Spirit because of the attitude and/or scorn of someone or some bodies.
That would reek of lack of faith to the max.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2008 5:18:12 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Hey there
My question is.......what do you do if you are speaking in tongues and you decide - after reading all these posts....that you need to stop?
Seriously, I would think you have a problem if you are 'speaking in tongues' and then you decide it is not of God?!?
Why would someone who is led by the Holy Spirit stop being led by the Holy Spirit because of the attitude and/or scorn of someone or some bodies.
That would reek of lack of faith to the max.
Thsnks
RC
Aaaah...so you see what I am saying.........the problem, then must be with those who do not believe. I believe. 
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2008 5:56:30 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 476
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: online
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JesKlu,
quote:
But the Church like you said, is full of fakes. That is what gets me, and other Christians, frustrated
The way a person is taught to recognize counterfeit money is by 'knowing' the real. So what qualifies you to even judge all of these so called 'fakes'? And since 'tongue talkers' are very much in the minority in the overall church I guess you should be careful as to which fakes the church is "full of". And how sad it is, that those minority 'tongue speaking' "fakey Christians"in the church, can rob you of God's peace and make you so "frustrated". Is it possible that the 'root of frustration' means your POV is not as close to Jesus and the truth as you think?
Bill,
quote:
Again more accusations. Are you the judge of my heart?
Not at all, I'm just judging your posts.
quote:
I have been saved for 21 years now and I have studied the scriptures extensively so don't expect me to just jump on your bandwagon as soon as you say jump.
I was born again 36 years ago and Spirit baptized 6 months later. But that means nothing IMO. And No, I don't expect you to jump Bill. I don't expect you to jump at all...that's why I keep telling you I don't want to entertain anymore of your posts. But if you simply must have the last word to make you think you won or something...then so be it. Our dialougue is accomplishing nothing worthy of more time IMO.
quote:
Neither the ministry where I was saved nor the church I currently attend believe in tongues so your arguments of indoctrination are unfounded and show your bias.
Wrong again Bill. I once spent a year under a legaistic and fundamentalist home group leader, simply because the Spirit told me I was to shut up and submit to this man for the purpose of learning obedience for obedience sake. I still had every one of my biased opinions and therefore your above 'accusation' of bias is bogus IMO. 
DR
< Message edited by Him4all -- 6/2/2008 6:11:47 PM >
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2008 6:09:07 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
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Well, I have lived both ways. The Church I grew up in (15 yrs) led me to believe that 'speaking in tongues' was a beast that came out of the jungle and ate natives. Seriously!
Then I met other people who introduced me to "the Holy Spirit" and I received an infilling (I really am not comfortable with the ' catch words)
as per the Bible. I was alone - under no pressure - just me and my Lord and God was gracious and answered my prayer.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/2/2008 11:51:48 PM
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awaken
Posts: 95
Joined: 1/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Well, I have lived both ways. The Church I grew up in (15 yrs) led me to believe that 'speaking in tongues' was a beast that came out of the jungle and ate natives. Seriously!
Then I met other people who introduced me to "the Holy Spirit" and I received an infilling (I really am not comfortable with the ' catch words)
as per the Bible. I was alone - under no pressure - just me and my Lord and God was gracious and answered my prayer.
I can relate to this testamony. I recieved also by faith and by myself...years after I had accepted Jesus as my Savior.
I too was raised very legalistic, thank God he has set me free of that!
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 12:46:51 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1737
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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This question may have been addressed earlier in the thread, but seeing as how it's now nearing 100 pages, and not feeling qualified to search through them at almost 1 in the morning, I figured I'll just ask it here -
Spiritual gifts are given for the purpose of edifying the Body of Christ, not the individual (1 Corinthians 12:7 off the top of my head, maybe Romans 12:4-5. It seems to me that every time Spiritual gifts are discussed, it's in the context of the Body - maybe I'm mistaken?). How does speaking in tongues build up the local church?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 9:05:45 AM
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wacotton
Posts: 751
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JesKlu
Hello!
But how are you able to tell the real from the fake. So many people are taught (coached) how to seak in tongues and that is quite frustrating. And I don't want to repeat the Jewel/pamphlet story.
Like I said before, you either have the gift of tongues or you don't.
Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica
Jesus said that a tree is known by it's fruit. And remember this is not to condemn a whole denomination or group because of one bad apple. If that were the case you would have to condemn all of Christianity. Also even good well meaning christians can do bad things. Is there true repentance? Is there sorrow for sin? Is there hunger and thirst for righteousness?
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 9:07:47 AM
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wacotton
Posts: 751
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Hey there
My question is.......what do you do if you are speaking in tongues and you decide - after reading all these posts....that you need to stop?
Seriously, I would think you have a problem if you are 'speaking in tongues' and then you decide it is not of God?!?
My question would be, why do you feel that you need to stop?
Do you feel that what you are doing is not real? If yes, Why?
Luke 11:9-139 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
< Message edited by wacotton -- 6/3/2008 9:17:39 AM >
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 9:26:37 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 1443
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
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quote:
Hey there
My question is.......what do you do if you are speaking in tongues and you decide - after reading all these posts....that you need to stop?
Seriously, I would think you have a problem if you are 'speaking in tongues' and then you decide it is not of God?!?
I can think of a few reasons why it would be appropriate to stop. If:
a) You realize that you were trained to speak in tongues by a church that is somewhat overzealous about it, and that it is not your personal gift/calling so you should stop trying to force it
b) You realize that you're only doing it because it's what's expected (which is sort of faking it, but with good intentions)
c) You realize the venue in which you do it is inappropriate (interrupting the sermon, for instance)
d) You realize you're only doing it for personal pride to indicate to others that you've been touched by the Spirit.
you might consider rethinking whether or not you have and/or should exercise the gift of tongues. Otherwise, if you're convinced that the gift is genuine and that you're using it appropriately in the appropriate venue, then by all means continue.
I'm sure there are plenty of fakers out there who are doing it out of personal pride or because it's what's expected of them. I would expect that most of them have the best of intentions, though. And, frankly, I think I would be a little more worried about people faking gifts like teaching and prophecy, since just random babbling is really kind of harmless unless they're interrupting something.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 9:41:21 AM
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Coffee_Drinker
Posts: 109
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
a) You realize that you were trained to speak in tongues by a church that is somewhat overzealous about it, and that it is not your personal gift/calling so you should stop trying to force it
b) You realize that you're only doing it because it's what's expected (which is sort of faking it, but with good intentions).
Oh... Have I been there!
Wife and I looking for a church to go to (being career military we moved a lot - retired now) we had to encounter several different... oddities. All we wanted was to hear about Jesus. Sometimes they wanted to "save our souls" (we already were), but some wanted to be sure and some expected us to speak in tongues from the get-go (seems they thought we weren't really "saved" unless we spoke in tongues. Then the Baptism stuff ("In Jesus name" or "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost"). Talk about confusing the issue of salvation!
Speaking in tongues is a gift from God. Personally, I don't have that one. I figure that if God wants me to speak in tongues he will simply "overwhelm" me like he did the Apostles in the book of Acts.
_____________________________
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 10:19:22 AM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
Joined: 5/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wacotton
quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Hey there
My question is.......what do you do if you are speaking in tongues and you decide - after reading all these posts....that you need to stop?
Seriously, I would think you have a problem if you are 'speaking in tongues' and then you decide it is not of God?!?
My question would be, why do you feel that you need to stop?
Do you feel that what you are doing is not real? If yes, Why?
Luke 11:9-139 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
I was asking the question to people who think that speaking in tongues is either a sign of mental illness or demonic visitation. I never said I had to stop. People say such stupid things - exactly the opposite of what the Bible really says - tongues has not ceased. So, my question was what would all these experts like those who speak in tongues to do> Since they think we should not be doing it, what is their solutiion?
Now do you all understand? I settled this question along time ago. I am so fatigued and utterly fed up with people who think that God has stopped being supernatural. And the only reason we call Him supernatural, is because in our sinful state we no longer walk with Him in the garden.
And then we have the other side - the spiritual abusers who think that everything spiritual comes from God.. They do not test the spirits and they go nuts and think acting like animals is godly.
I hope I have made myself a little clearer?
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 10:21:47 AM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
Joined: 5/30/2008
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I just reread my post and I am not calling anyone here stupid who responded to my question - sorry but I mean what I said about stupidty when it comes to people who think that their brains are better than the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our provision - sent by God Himself - to help us an sustain us and teach us.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 12:04:02 PM
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JesKlu
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
I can think of a few reasons why it would be appropriate to stop. If:
a) You realize that you were trained to speak in tongues by a church that is somewhat overzealous about it, and that it is not your personal gift/calling so you should stop trying to force it
b) You realize that you're only doing it because it's what's expected (which is sort of faking it, but with good intentions)
c) You realize the venue in which you do it is inappropriate (interrupting the sermon, for instance)
d) You realize you're only doing it for personal pride to indicate to others that you've been touched by the Spirit.
you might consider rethinking whether or not you have and/or should exercise the gift of tongues. Otherwise, if you're convinced that the gift is genuine and that you're using it appropriately in the appropriate venue, then by all means continue.
I'm sure there are plenty of fakers out there who are doing it out of personal pride or because it's what's expected of them. I would expect that most of them have the best of intentions, though. And, frankly, I think I would be a little more worried about people faking gifts like teaching and prophecy, since just random babbling is really kind of harmless unless they're interrupting something.
Hello Zhi!
I couldn't have said it any better.
Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica
_____________________________
And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 3:34:08 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5679
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
This question may have been addressed earlier in the thread, but seeing as how it's now nearing 100 pages, and not feeling qualified to search through them at almost 1 in the morning, I figured I'll just ask it here -
Spiritual gifts are given for the purpose of edifying the Body of Christ, not the individual (1 Corinthians 12:7 off the top of my head, maybe Romans 12:4-5. It seems to me that every time Spiritual gifts are discussed, it's in the context of the Body - maybe I'm mistaken?). How does speaking in tongues build up the local church?
Well with that line of thinking how do you handle this passage;
Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2008 6:22:36 PM
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awaken
Posts: 95
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
This question may have been addressed earlier in the thread, but seeing as how it's now nearing 100 pages, and not feeling qualified to search through them at almost 1 in the morning, I figured I'll just ask it here -
Spiritual gifts are given for the purpose of edifying the Body of Christ, not the individual (1 Corinthians 12:7 off the top of my head, maybe Romans 12:4-5. It seems to me that every time Spiritual gifts are discussed, it's in the context of the Body - maybe I'm mistaken?). How does speaking in tongues build up the local church?
It has been explain to me in this fashion....If you are on a football team and you work out etc. at home....then when you get together as a team the team is better off if each player is in shape .
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2008 12:14:17 PM
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JesKlu
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: awaken
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
This question may have been addressed earlier in the thread, but seeing as how it's now nearing 100 pages, and not feeling qualified to search through them at almost 1 in the morning, I figured I'll just ask it here -
Spiritual gifts are given for the purpose of edifying the Body of Christ, not the individual (1 Corinthians 12:7 off the top of my head, maybe Romans 12:4-5. It seems to me that every time Spiritual gifts are discussed, it's in the context of the Body - maybe I'm mistaken?). How does speaking in tongues build up the local church?
It has been explain to me in this fashion....If you are on a football team and you work out etc. at home....then when you get together as a team the team is better off if each player is in shape .
Yeah, but what about those who do not speak in tongues? Are they not in shape? To me, it just doesn't make sense. Not every believer has the same gift.
Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica
_____________________________
And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2008 1:49:48 PM
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Him4all
Posts: 476
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: online
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JesKlu,
quote:
Yeah, but what about those who do not speak in tongues? Are they not in shape?
It's not about them not being in shape, it's about them not being in as good a shape as they could be! BTW that doesn't mean they are in worse shape than someone who does speak in tongues. That is all determined by one's God given talents that you're born with. Some people who have more talents will be in better shape than someone who didn't get equal talents even though the one with less speaks in tongues via their spirit's prayer language.
quote:
To me, it just doesn't make sense. Not every believer has the same gift.
Does it make sense to you to have a born again spirit that's mute? The prayer tongue of your spirit is for everyone...just like salvation. But it's up to you to believe it...just like salvation. If you don't believe you will not receive.
The tongue gift that isn't for "every believer" is the tongue that comes from The Holy Spirit...not your spirit. That's two different tongues and two different Sspirits, it's as simple as that.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2008 2:02:02 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1443
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
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quote:
Does it make sense to you to have a born again spirit that's mute? The prayer tongue of your spirit is for everyone...just like salvation. But it's up to you to believe it...just like salvation. If you don't believe you will not receive.
The tongue gift that isn't for "every believer" is the tongue that comes from The Holy Spirit...not your spirit. That's two different tongues and two different Sspirits, it's as simple as that.
Hmm. Could you provide verses that support that claim?
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2008 6:13:47 PM
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wacotton
Posts: 751
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JesKlu
quote:
ORIGINAL: awaken
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
This question may have been addressed earlier in the thread, but seeing as how it's now nearing 100 pages, and not feeling qualified to search through them at almost 1 in the morning, I figured I'll just ask it here -
Spiritual gifts are given for the purpose of edifying the Body of Christ, not the individual (1 Corinthians 12:7 off the top of my head, maybe Romans 12:4-5. It seems to me that every time Spiritual gifts are discussed, it's in the context of the Body - maybe I'm mistaken?). How does speaking in tongues build up the local church?
It has been explain to me in this fashion....If you are on a football team and you work out etc. at home....then when you get together as a team the team is better off if each player is in shape .
Yeah, but what about those who do not speak in tongues? Are they not in shape? To me, it just doesn't make sense. Not every believer has the same gift.
Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica
I believe everyone who is baptized with the Holy Spirit will be able to pray in tongues. There are different reasons why people don't receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Each person has to seek God for themselves because it is not something that someone else can necessarily determine . Also tongues are not learned, they are received with the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
1)Not Saved
There are many nominal christians who have never really accepted Christ as Lord and Savior.
They are not really born-again or saved. The new birth must come first.
2)Ignorance
Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3)Disobedience
Now I want to clarify that someone who is still struggling with a particular sin is not automatically disqualified. In Matthew 5 Jesus said that those who even hunger for righteousness would be filled.
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Matthew 5:6
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
4)Condemnation
One of the lies the devil uses to keep people from receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit is to tell them that they are not good enough. Now there are times when God will deal with someone concerning a specific sin that He wants them to stop. The devil's lies rob a person of hope and are usually very vague and general such as, "There must be something wrong with you". This especially happens when a person has been seeking for a while.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
5)Lack of Hunger & Thirst
This can come from either false teaching that you already have it or don't need it or that it's not important. It can also just be lukewarmness and disinterest. There are also some who think, "if God wants me to have it, He'll just give it to me, I don't have to do anything". In Luke 11:13 Jesus said the Holy Spirit is given to those who ask.
Matthew 5:6
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
John 7:37-39
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
6)Fear of fakes
Many because of false teaching are afraid of receiving something from the devil or just plain faking it. The passage in Luke 11:9-13 shows that if we are God's children and we are asking for the Holy Spirit we don't have to fear that He will give us something fake or allow the devil to.
Luke 11:9-13
9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
7)Already Recieved
Some may already have been baptized with the Holy Spirit but when they hear themselves pray in tongues they just think it is them. This happened to me. I went forward at a church and raised my hands and started praising God. No one touched me or said anything to me. I felt the Spirit of God coming into my arms and legs and just filling my whole body. If felt like the pins and needls feeling when you leg falls asleep but there was no pain or discomfort of any kind. I left that night and I was High in the Holy Spirit for three days. I heard myself uttering noises I didn't understand and just thought it was me doing it so I didn't think that I had been baptized. About a week later my roommate and I were getting ready for bed listening to a worship tape. I felt the Joy of the Lord bursting forth from inside and I blurted out a few sylables in tongues. My friend said, "brother what was that?" and I said "oh nothing" and he said, "brother that was the Holy Ghost!" What is interesting to me is that before I was baptized with the Holy Spirit the devil tried to convince me that I was and afterwards he tried to convince me that I wasn't.
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2008 6:32:35 PM
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wacotton
Posts: 751
Joined: 4/11/2005
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JesKlu,
As Him4All has pointed out the tongues in 1 Corinthians 12 are different from praying in tongues. All of the gifts listed in that chapter are ministry gifts for ministering to others not personal gifts for our own relationship with God. Note that one of the other gifts listed is Faith. Hebrews 11:6 makes it clear that we all need faith so then this faith in 1 Corinthians 12 must be different from the faith we need for salvation. Simply it is faith given to believe God for the needs of others. It is similar with tongues. When a person speaks in tongues and an interpretation follows that is God the Father through the Holy Spirit speaking to the church or an individual. When I pray in tongues it is the Holy Spirit in me in co-operation with my spirit praying to God the Father.
Romans 8:26-27
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
1 Corinthians 14:32
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
Jude 20-21
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
_____________________________
Bill Cotton
2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2008 6:34:12 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1443
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
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Okay, but none of those verses appear to be saying anything about the gift of tongues being the sole indication of baptism of the Holy Spirit.
So I must ask... why tongues? Why not prophecy, or teaching, or any of the other spiritual gifts that are listed?
Why would you short-change, or look down, or force fakery, on someone who got prophecy or teaching as their spiritual gift instead of tongues?
I have no issue with tongues being a gift of the Spirit and an indicator that a person has been baptised by the Holy Spirit. I DO have a problem when people claim that it's the ONLY indicator and that ALL people should have to show that gift.
To address the new posts:
quote:
Romans 8:26-27
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
If the groanings "cannot be uttered" then they're not tongues, because they, um, can't be uttered. Tongues are most definitely uttered.
quote:
1 Corinthians 14:32
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
?
quote:
Jude 20-21
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
I believe I pray in the Holy Ghost pretty often. Thing is... I pray in the Holy Ghost in English, that being the language I know and can best use to express that which the Spirit is laying on my heart. There's no indication there that praying in the Holy Ghost must be done in tongues.
< Message edited by Zhi -- 6/4/2008 6:43:28 PM >
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2008 7:39:26 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1737
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
It has been explain to me in this fashion....If you are on a football team and you work out etc. at home....then when you get together as a team the team is better off if each player is in shape .
Thanks for answering my question! But, I'm afraid your analogy doesn't fly with me. A team and a body are not the same thing. A team is made up of individuals who, though they play together on the field, are ultimately separate. A body is one being entirely. For example, the heart cannot say to itself, "I will become healthy!" The rest of the body needs to work out in order to improve the heart's health. Similarly, the arms cannot say, "I will now lift weight all by myself!" They needs the hands the hold the weights, the lungs and hearts to supply the energy (not to mention the mouth and stomach!), etc. I can't think of any time a body part acts independently of at least one other part in order to grow stronger.
In the same way, I don't see any spiritual gift being used in Scripture as a way for the individual believer to grow stronger in their personal faith as the end goal. That may be a side benefit, but the end goal always seems to be the edification of the body of Christ for the general good.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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