RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

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Dougeb -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 3:43:05 PM)

well i did not speak in toungs on the same day Jesus redeemed me, it happened latter and it was like in acts it came the best way to dicribe it is like a rushing wind. all alone after time in prayer. His ways are not our ways, some some recieve instantly. i was taught that could recieve, i believed and i recieved. now can the LORD come upon some one and they begin to speak in toungs sure we cant keep him in a box, he caused a donkey to speak. and for sure we must make disciples. so must mature in order to do so. we must get beyond infantcy, beyond the milk of the word and to meat AND STRONG MEAT. and just have faith time to believe the whole word both written and GOD breathed words. well enough said be blessed



awaken -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 3:51:20 PM)

The church in Corinthians was not a mature church. This is why Paul is rebuking them so much. Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with maturity. I has do do with accepting-believing-faith....just like everything else in God's word!



Dougeb -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 4:03:06 PM)

not saying toungs is a sign of maturity am saying need to get past that and mature. i say some pray in toungs and some dont, some get a word in toungs and it needs interpetation. and it for sure is not a conclusive sign of being born again. and yes they were out of order in corinth itwas because every speaking all at once so no interpetation could come. just like if you have 3 children trying to speak to you all at once.



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 4:19:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles

quote:

If tongues are not permitted in a Church; is the Church not in line with Scripture.


It depends on what kind of tongues are being forbid. If the tongues are being done properly, in an orderly way that edifies the church, then no, it is not. If, however, they are lovingly trying to calm people whose tongues are uncontrolled and disruptive, then I would say that they are commanded to lovingly correct the individual(s) doing this.


So McFribbles, does your Church permit 2 or three prophesies in tongus as long as they are interpreted?

Or do you just throw out the baby with the bathwater?

Thsnks
RC



awaken -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 4:26:54 PM)

It is by speaking in tongues that I have found has helped me grow up in the Lord. I believe there is a supernatural exchange that takes place when we pray in the Spirit.

Rom 8:27, 28 says "And he (the Holy SPirit) that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for the good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

I believe that the HolySpirit searches our heart to remove everything that is contrary to the will of God....and replaces it with the plan He has for us. He prays the perfect plan.



TJO5 -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 6:31:38 PM)

Hello rcjames,
I have been in churches where one person spoke in tongues and another interpreted according to 1 Cor. 14:27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, [let there be] two or at the most three, [each] in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God
But I have also seen where three spoke in tongues and interpreted themselves in accordance with verse 13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

Both were done decently and in order.

Yours in Christ,
T.J.



MrFribbles -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/1/2008 10:35:22 PM)

quote:

Just as bad is the elitist mentality of those who believe that the operation of tongues and other spiritual gifts makes them superior in some way to other christians; or that such operations confirm them and whatever message they have.


That is rather destructive in the Church. Really, any for of elitism must be scorned. Those who are the greatest are the lowliest, and the lowliest are the greatest; a basic lesson that, sadly, many miss out on.

quote:

I would need to address specific examples,but for the most part the events in the book of Acts were details of the beginning of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the church.


So, given that Mark 16 was before Pentecost, when do you believe, in general, belief began to be a requirement for receiving a sign?


----

quote:

and GOD breathed words


Dougeb, could you explain what you mean by this phrase, please? : )


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quote:

So McFribbles, does your Church permit 2 or three prophesies in tongus as long as they are interpreted?

Or do you just throw out the baby with the bathwater?


The church that I currently attend (I'm moving in a month, so I'm trying to get used to the idea of it not being my church anymore, heh) believes in the cessation of sign gifts, so I don't think anyone has ever tried to speak in tongues during our services.
However, we, as a church, do not shun believers who do believe the sign gifts are still active. It is just not a way we believe God is still working today.
Personally, I would not be opposed to becoming a member of a church that practiced tongues in a biblical fashion.



TJO5 -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 9:55:48 AM)

quote:

MrFribbles
So, given that Mark 16 was before Pentecost, when do you believe, in general, belief began to be a requirement for receiving a sign?


I don't think Mark 16 was before Pentecost. From the fact that Mark 16 talks about tongues,and tongues were unknown before Pentecost, it can only mean that Pentecost came first.
In general I wouldn't think that Mark 16 was written before much of the events related to tongues in Acts had already transpired,and,since Paul is one of those in Acts who was a figure in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (with tongues) then possibly Paul's writings to the Corinthians was already common knowledge.

One other thing is that your question is misleading. There is no belief required to receive a sign,but tongues is a gift (a sign gift) which does require faith to operate,and the sign is not for those who believe-
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;
so we operate this gift as a sign to unbelievers so that scripture is proven-
21 In the law it is written: "With [men of] other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me," says the Lord.
So as believers we are not receiving signs but we are receiving gifts -which makes us signs(or signbearers) to those who don't believe.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 10:45:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJO5

Hello rcjames,
I have been in churches where one person spoke in tongues and another interpreted according to 1 Cor. 14:27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, [let there be] two or at the most three, [each] in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God
But I have also seen where three spoke in tongues and interpreted themselves in accordance with verse 13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

Both were done decently and in order.

Yours in Christ,
T.J.


I agree.

Thanks
RC



rcjames -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 10:48:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
The church that I currently attend (I'm moving in a month, so I'm trying to get used to the idea of it not being my church anymore, heh) believes in the cessation of sign gifts, so I don't think anyone has ever tried to speak in tongues during our services.
However, we, as a church, do not shun believers who do believe the sign gifts are still active. It is just not a way we believe God is still working today.
Personally, I would not be opposed to becoming a member of a church that practiced tongues in a biblical fashion.


I wish you well in finding a suitable Church at your new location.

Thanks
RC



MrFribbles -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 4:06:52 PM)

quote:

I don't think Mark 16 was before Pentecost. From the fact that Mark 16 talks about tongues,and tongues were unknown before Pentecost, it can only mean that Pentecost came first.


Do you believe it was Christ who was speaking in Mark 16?

----

quote:

I wish you well in finding a suitable Church at your new location.


Thanks. : )



TJO5 -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 5:15:51 PM)

quote:

MrFribbles
Do you believe it was Christ who was speaking in Mark 16?

I'm not sure.
I hadn't really paid attention to that before.
The majority of discussions I have ever had about tongues which included this scripture have been with those who treat it as spurious or an after the fact addition by someone in the early church- in which case it would never be accepted as a stand alone text,but with other texts it is possible to explain the gift of tongues.
upon reflection I would have to say yes though- if we accept that the longer ending of Mark is not an addition-as is needed if we are going to prove doctrine from it.
But then that would mean that Jesus had already told His Apostles about tongues beforehand so they had time to believe in them before receiving them.
Of course they had no way of knowing the specifics of what was told to them there-it wasn't until later that the events in the book of Acts helped them to understand what Jesus told them as well as the teachings Paul gives us.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.



solarflare -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 5:47:39 PM)

Hmmmm - what do you make of Acts 2:14 - 21?



Dougeb -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 9:26:54 PM)

what i mean by GOD breathed is inspired, yes all logo's is inspired but i ment rehma word also. like how peter by insperation quoted joel in acts.2:14-21 .



Dougeb -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 9:33:45 PM)

i like how all 12 stood up together, all new at once what just happened as Jesus had told them it would happen. acts 2 14-21



Dougeb -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 9:41:10 PM)

mark may not have been written before acts but the account spoken about in mark 16 is before acts. if we accecpt the long verison.



MrFribbles -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/2/2008 10:56:36 PM)

quote:

But then that would mean that Jesus had already told His Apostles about tongues beforehand so they had time to believe in them before receiving them.


Possibly - but, assuming we have a fairly good copy of the actual word-for-word of Jesus at this time (I'm certainly not suggesting that it wouldn't be an inspired and sufficient account of Christ's words, but I seriously doubt every encounter in Scripture is a dictation-style copy... The sermon on the mount would have been no more than 10 minutes, if that were the case!), then He would be placing tongues on the same level as poison-resistance, which I think we all agree is not a Spiritual gift.
Perhaps He could be describing both some signs, and a Spiritual gift?



TJO5 -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/3/2008 12:00:14 AM)

quote:

MrFribbles
then He would be placing tongues on the same level as poison-resistance, which I think we all agree is not a Spiritual gift.
Perhaps He could be describing both some signs, and a Spiritual gift?


It is possible. The ending to Mark IMO is murky though.
Since you refer to poison resistance there is a link here
which links to some information about poison resistance (and tongues) but the discrepancy between the two poison accounts shows how occasionally things get added later on to support doctrines.
This doesn't really help the doctrines if they are true though as it makes them seem to be lacking.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.



MrFribbles -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/3/2008 12:26:41 AM)

quote:

The ending to Mark IMO is murky though.


I agree. Given the suspect nature of the texts of this passage, I would say it'd wise to not base any serious doctrinal decisions on it.
Also, I'm afraid that your link did not work (don't worry, I doubt if I could figure out how to turn something into a hyperlink!), so I have yet to read the site you were trying to direct me to.



TJO5 -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/3/2008 6:53:15 AM)

quote:

Mr Fribbles
Also, I'm afraid that your link did not work (don't worry, I doubt if I could figure out how to turn something into a hyperlink!), so I have yet to read the site you were trying to direct me to.

I repaired the link in the other post but
This one should work too

Yours in Christ,
T.J.



solarflare -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/3/2008 4:04:24 PM)

Isn't it time for someone to appear and state they do not believe in tongues? [sm=shakinghead.gif]



MrFribbles -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/3/2008 4:21:49 PM)

quote:

I repaired the link in the other post but
This one should work too


Thanks!
That seems like a very interesting site. However, not being much of a student of non-biblical early Church history (I of course use non-biblical to simply mean not recorded in Scripture, not going against the teachings of Scripture), I found myself very soon lost in the whole thing!
But if you had any particular thoughts or insights from it, I would be interested in hearing them. : )



TJO5 -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/3/2008 6:14:58 PM)

quote:

MrFribbles
That seems like a very interesting site. However, not being much of a student of non-biblical early Church history (I of course use non-biblical to simply mean not recorded in Scripture, not going against the teachings of Scripture), I found myself very soon lost in the whole thing!
But if you had any particular thoughts or insights from it, I would be interested in hearing them. : )


I study alot of the early church Fathers and have read just about everything from the ante-nicene fathers up until about Tertullian (start of the Latin Fathers),it starts going astray the further away you get from the early eyewitnesses.The most valuable insights I find are reading the works of Irenaeus (Against Heresies)
There is alot of interesting stuff-you just have to be aware that what is written is not scripture.
The site I posted was a little different in that it was someone else doing the work of searching the Early Fathers, the only trouble is that you sometimes are tempted to accept someone's conclusions without checking their research- it is never good to do that because most people start with a doctrine and research just enough to prove it rather than being unbiased and posting everything about an issue regardless of whether it helps or hinders.
WACotton actually posted an excellent link a couple of pages ago about the gift of tongues throughout history.
Bill Cotton's post # 2385
Yours in Christ,
T.J.



TJO5 -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/3/2008 6:35:41 PM)

quote:

solarflare
Isn't it time for someone to appear and state they do not believe in tongues?

I hope so. It get's harder to discuss tongues when you don't have someone disagreeing with you all the time. : )



solarflare -> RE: Gift of Tongues - One Stop Thread (7/3/2008 6:52:58 PM)

quote:

I hope so. It get's harder to discuss tongues when you don't have someone disagreeing with you all the time. : )



LOL [sm=biggrin.gif]yes, exactly!



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